Talk:Hermione Granger
Hermione's first wand, anyone know what happened to it? After it was confiscated by the snatchers it was never given back in the books. Does JKR ever address this? Does she get a new one, or did participating in a duel where Bellatrix was defeated change the wands alliance?Goofyd00d (talk) 18:20, January 14, 2015 (UTC) Skin colour :They were there, both of them, sitting outside Florean Fortescue's Ice Cream Parlor -- Ron looking incredibly freckly, Hermione very brown, both waving frantically at him. Could Hermione have had a different skin color than depicted in the movies? Ѧüя◎ґ (talk) 23:47, February 16, 2015 (UTC) ::I'm fairly sure that just means that Hermione, having spent a summer on holiday in a warm place, was tan, especially compared to what he was accustomed to - otherwise, Harry likely wouldn't have commented on Hermione's brownness. --Hunnie Bunn (talk) 00:39, February 17, 2015 (UTC) A lot of people are "fairly sure" about Hermione's ethnicity, but JKR seems to be more flexible. What does the book explicitly say about Hermione's physical characteristics? We know she has brown bushy hair, brown eyes, and (initially) buck teeth. Anything else that's "for sure" rather than "fairly sure"? - Kwijybo (talk) 14:48, December 23, 2015 (UTC) I'm positive Hermione's ethnicity is up to the reader's imagination. J. K.Rowling never revealed her skin color when she described Hermione's appearance, and she approved of Noma Dumezweni, a black actress, for Hermione in Harry Potter and the Cursed Child, while she also ''approved of Emma Watson as Hermione in the Harry Potter film franchise. Also, Rowling stated, "Canon: Brown eyes, frizzy hair and very clever. ''White skin never specified." If Rowling had intended for Hermione to be white, black, mixed race, or any other race, she never specified it. Rowling also insisted that Hermione just could be black. Also, Hermione really couldn't have looked the way she did in the films. Emma Watson was a really good actress, but she didn't have Hermione's frizzy hair or large front teeth. Also, because of the films, her hair color is debatable because in some parts of Order of the Phoenix, her hair looked golden, whereas in Sorcerer's Stone, her hair looked auburn. Her hair is also not very frizzy and bushy, like depicted in the books. In fact, in one part of Deathly Hallows Part One, her hair appears almost straight. The only time her hair was not supposed to be out of control was in Goblet of Fire, when her hair was straightened and put up in a very elegant bun. I don't care if this is not your opinion, I am exactly like Hermione in looks and personality, and like her, I have decided to stand up for my beliefs about her ethnicity. Hermione is a Ravendor Jedi Master (talk) 00:04, November 29, 2017 (UTC)Hermione Granger is a Ravendor Jedi :Let's not start any arguments. I suggest that in order to avoid starting an argument, we leave the information how it currently stands, as it has been agreed upon by the community that what's in the info-box should stay where it is, how it is. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 12:40, November 29, 2017 (UTC) :: I agree with the above comment. You can view Hermione how you want to and everyone can interpret her in their own way, you can do that with any character - why everyone needs to make a deal out of it to feel validated, I don't know. However Rowling certainly thought Hermione to be white when she was writing the books and the evidence is there - you cannot deny Rowling's own drawing for example, which is the best piece of evidence we have. The information in the infobox now needs to be left the way it is because changing it will be even more unpopular, and the community already agreed on how to deal with that. — RoseKate13 (talk) 13:36, November 29, 2017 (UTC) ::: I honestly think Hermione should be viewed any way the reader wants, don't get me wrong. I just don't like the fact that people keep insisting Hermione MUST be white. I really don't care exactly how Rowling saw Hermione, but honestly, don't let that cloud your imagination. She never specified Hermione's ethnicity in the books, so you can imagine her however you want. Also, if changing the infobox makes it more unpopular, that's everyone else's problem because it's a hint that they may be racist, and The Hunger Games was bad enough with the whole Rue issue. I really don't understand why saying Hermione is any race is harmful. If someone hates the fact that others think Hermione is black, Hispanic, Asian, Latino, etc., well, that's their problem not mine. We can leave the infobox the way it is, but I won't be very content with it if her ethnicity was never specified, just saying. Hermione is a Ravendor Jedi Master (talk) 22:41, December 13, 2017 (UTC)Hermione Granger is a Ravendor Jedi ::::Seriously you should just step back and let the information in the info-box stay how it is. You are resurrecting an argument which was already settled some time ago. Also forgive me for being blunt, but this isn't about you. This is about her. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 03:00, December 14, 2017 (UTC) ::::Okay, did you not see what I said there? Even though I'm not very content, I said, " We can leave the infobox the way it is". We can leave it. Have it your way. I'm just going to go to some other website now because I think I've been hacked and I need to fix everything that's going on. Is that okay with you? Hermione is a Ravendor Jedi Master (talk) 23:20, January 11, 2018 (UTC) Oh, and one more thing: As everybody has been saying, Harry Potter is #WhiteSupremacist :This appears no longer to be related to how to best edit the page in question, which is what Talk pages are for (see HPW:TPP). However, you might want to raise the topic in Discussions to get other peoples' thoughts and opinions. Cheers --Ironyak1 (talk) 17:21, January 15, 2018 (UTC) :Yeah, I see your point Also known as Can we find sources for all of these, please? I am fairly certain that " 'Mione " only ever appears in badly-researched fan-fiction, and I'm dubious about "Herm-i-own". When did Rita Skeeter call her "Bored Yawn"? Was that at the 2014 Quidditch World Cup? —Phil | Talk 14:08, August 12, 2015 (UTC) :Viktor Krum calls her "Herm-i-own" in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, until she corrects him. (Out of universe, this was J. K. Rowling's way of indicating the pronunciation to those readers who were likewise getting it wrong.) — RobertATfm (talk) 19:07, October 5, 2015 (UTC) Skin colour, revisited As mentioned in "Skin colour" section above, Hermione was described as being "very brown" when Harry saw her in Prisoner of Azkaban. Initially I had assumed this was because of a summer tan being in a warm, sunny place. However, J. K. Rowling recently had this to say on Twitter, in response to the casting of Noma Dumezweni as Hermione in Harry Potter and the Cursed Child: "Canon: brown eyes, frizzy hair and very clever. White skin was never specified. Rowling loves black Hermione". This, coupled with the above, seems to indicate that perhaps Hermione's skin was dark after all. This, on the other hand, is combated by a drawing claimed by fans to have been done by Rowling depicting Hermione as white and by the Prisoner of Azkaban quote "Hermione's white face was sticking out from behind a tree" (this, however, may have been a figure of speech referring to Hermione's fear, rather than an indication of skin colour). Should we keep the skin colour as light because of the movies, or should it perhaps be changed based on this new evidence? --Hunnie Bunn (talk) 15:28, December 21, 2015 (UTC) :Some of what Rowling says is to get some fans excited, she doesn't like to shut things down with definitive answers. I agree that white skin wasn't specified, but on dark skinned characters, dark skin was specified, and she had plenty of time to specify. Hermoine coming back from France tanned is backed up by Umbridge asking Hagrid why he was still pale after spending a summer there. :I feel that she would not have allowed them to cast a white actor into the role in the movies if she was indeed dark skinned. :Goofyd00d (talk) 19:07, December 21, 2015 (UTC) ::It's not entirely true that Hermione's skin colour wasn't specified in the series, there are lots mentions of her going pink in the face, and several other mentions of her being pale or white in the face (there's that PoA quote, but there's also: "“Harry, come on, move!” Hermione had seized the collar of his jacket and was tugging him backward. “What’s the matter?” Harry said, startled to see her face so white and terrified." (Goblet of Fire, Chapter 9); "Nobody spoke for a while, not even when they heard the distant crash that meant Grawp had pulled over the pine tree at last. Hermione’s face was pale and set." (Order of the Phoenix, Chapter 30); "“But — but where? How?” said Hermione, whose face was white." (Order of the Phoenix, Chapter 32); "“He’s fainted,” said Hermione, who was also rather pale; she no longer looked like Mafalda, though her hair was still gray in places." (Deathly Hallows, Chapter 14); "Hermione was wrapped in a borrowed dressing gown, pale and unsteady on her feet; Ron put an arm around her when she reached him" (Deathly Hallows, Chapter 24).) ::Rowling is endorsing a black person being cast, in a time when there's so much talk of race representation in media. That's not a canonical statement, really -- we must also remember that she gave her a-ok to dark-haired Dursleys (Petunia and Dudley were blonds), dark-haired Neville (who was also blond), a blue-eyed Harry (needless to say, his eyes were green), a blue-eyed Voldemort (red eyes), a clean-shaven Slughorn (no enormous, silver, walrus-like moustache in sight), and a complete list would just go on and on. If anything, this speaks more of just how much of an awesome and unprejudiced person Rowling can be. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 20:06, December 21, 2015 (UTC) :::You realize that all of those quotes you just provided don't specifically work as skin colour but are expressions right? Using the phrase "Face is white" is common in any book for a character who is frightened, be it black or even a blue skinned creature. The phrase "Pink in the face" is used in any book as a way to say they are blushing. Being pale doesn't instantly make someone white, I know plenty of pale black people. I think JK left the description of Hermione's skin colour out so people could make it their own, so we as fans could imagine her as we felt fit. For Hermione's page, skin colour should be left out, or maybe state undefined in the books, caucasian in the movies and black in the play? It'd be better then leaving it defined based on such lack luster quotes from the books. - Unsigned by User:Alpha Lycos ::::Not that it really matters since it's a book and you are meant to imagine the world, but you may have to go deeper to appease the revisionists that will want to fight over this, Seth Cooper. For instance, how many characters specifically had ethnicity/skin tone mentioned? Of those described as dark skinned, did Rowling ever use the 'white face'/'pink in the face'/'pale' descriptors for them? Surely there must be official artwork of the book Hermione as well. Perhaps 'Skin colour' should be changed to 'Complexion'? Then we could use 'pale' or whatever Rowling did use to describe her as in the books. Maresy Doats (talk) 07:58, December 23, 2015 (UTC) :::::Hermione tans, which black people don't. Black people aren't described as going white in the face. Also, she's white on Pottermore. -- Saxon 16:54, December 23, 2015 (UTC) ::::::It makes for very awkward wording to say that someone who has a dark complexion went white in the face. Either way, I see Rowling's point -- that skin colour and ethnicity are irrelevant, and I wholeheartedly agree -- but that's, apparently, not how the character was originally envisioned. Even in Rowling's original handdrawn illustrations she is as pale as Harry and Ron: take [[:File:Deanthomasoriginal.PNG|this illustration for the "Midnight Duel" chapter of Philosopher's Stone (in which Dean Thomas was initially meant to join Neville and the trio)]] -- you can tell how Dean's skin colour was darkened and Hermione's wasn't. ::::::It seems to be a case of an actor not matching the character's physical description, which isn't a big deal, really, it's happened loads of times before (and I'm sure no one liked Fiona Shaw's performance any less just because she didn't dye her hair blonde). All we should be caring about (and I'm sure all that Rowling cares about) is that Noma Dumezweni plays the part well. -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 17:58, December 23, 2015 (UTC) :::::::Is it really so difficult to distinguish book!Hermione from movie!Hermione, videogame!Hermione and now from play!Hermione? This is just another branch of available canon for us to deal with, just like the others, and we'll cope, OK? —Phil | Talk 18:20, December 23, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::The way I see it, JK Rowling imagined Hermione as being white. The illustrations, physical descriptors (which, as pointed out above, would sound really awkward if used to describe someone with dark skin) and the casting for the movies. I'm pretty sure that if Rowling intended for Hermione to be dark skinned, then she would have mentioned it at some point. Characters who are dark skinned, such as Dean Thomas, are usually explicitly mentioned to be so. That being said, it's clear that Rowling is open to leave it unspecified for the sake of inclusivity, which is good and fine. As such, I suggest we leave Hermione's skin colour as "unspecified". The Wikia Editor (talk) 23:53, December 25, 2015 (UTC) :::::::::I feel that it should changed to and kept as white, there has been more than enough evidence collected, this is just a case of mismatched actors. Rowling was backed in a corner when she made her statement, if she disagreed she would have been ostracized. She has mention in an interview that Hermoine was an exaggerated version of herself as a kid. I feel changing it for this rather than at least putting 2 lines for "White: Book, Movie" and "Black: Play" lowers the integrity of the wiki. We are supposed to provide as much info as possible, and unspecified is as little as possible. Goofyd00d (talk) 01:18, December 26, 2015 (UTC) ::::::::::I think that based on the fact that J.K. Rowling has gone on record saying the play is canon to the books (which the movies, of course, aren't), we should assume the characters in the books resemble the actors in the play. All the evidence cited here in defence of the "Hermione is white" viewpoint is either non-canon or opinion-based, so it doesn't hold up in the face of the clear evidence presented in the play. Based on the available evidence, I'd have to conclude Hermione is black in the books, white in the movies. It's as simple as that. Fantastic! Allons-y! Geronimo! 22:12, January 3, 2016 (UTC) :::::::::::It did say that Hermione was brown at one point in the books, but that is not an adequate enough bit of evidence to confirm that she really is black in the books. It could just have meant that she'd had a sun tan, or that her hair was brown or something. :::::::::::Your suggestions are all speculation. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 06:55, January 4, 2016 (UTC) ::::::::::::Like the movies, Rowling was not in charge of casting with the play. So while the script may be canon, the actors aren't. Plays are one long giant live take, the actors/actresses are chosen because it was decided that they could portray their character consistently enough to succeed in that environment, actor/actress mismatches are common due to this. Also the book sleeves portraying Hermione as white, you know, the ones literally attached to the books, are not opinion based evidence. Goofyd00d (talk) 08:22, January 4, 2016 (UTC) :::::::::::::No, I believe the "white face" and "she looked very brown" quotes are equally unusable. Color, or should I say colour in mostly british literature is mostly used as a way to describe someone's appearance in terms of mood, feelings, cleanliness, etc. In the books her skin color is up to interpretation, same with all the other characters. But there is a huge reference in the books that leads people to believe Hermione is white, that isn't the movie. That reference is the artwork Rowling has done for her books which depicts Hermione as white. If Rowling imagined Hermione to be black, why did Rowling make her white in all of the art that she illustrated? korbenmart (talk) ::::::::::::::The last time I checked, J. K. Rowling herself didn't actually illustrate the covers of the books herself. But I'm pretty sure that Hermione is fair skinned, and the "very brown" description could simply refer to something other than her skin tone. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 00:34, April 23, 2016 (UTC) ::: I always thought that JK did the art for the books, my bad I was wrong. But there are still art JK has made with the harry potter characters, ones like this one showing Hermione's skin as white. I don't think it should be changed if the writer imagined her this way. korbenmart (talk) :As this is getting more edits again, I would suggest everyone read the the Guardian Article where JK Rowling talks about this directly. Cheers --Ironyak1 (talk) 22:11, June 5, 2016 (UTC ::I've always read Hermione as white, but each reader is free to read each character as they want. My thing is, Dean Thomas is described as "black." If Jo wanted Hermione to be black, why not use the same tactic? THAT is my problem here. She's described other black people (Kingsley) as 'black' before, but never says anything about Hermione, thus leading many people to assume she's white. That's my two cents. Riderfan2150 (talk) 01:31, June 8, 2016 (UTC) :::Why do we even have a skin color section in the infobox. Skin color isn't important in the Harry Potter stories, it doesn't help us to understand the characters better, and it is unspecified for most characters. It also just seems silly to treat white as the default skin color.This whole debate could be solved by getting rid of that section of the infobox.Gowron8472 (talk) 02:55, June 15, 2016 (UTC) ::::I strongly disagree with the idea of removing the skin colour from articles. Skin tones are still necessary to include where possible. The correct information shouldn't be removed, because if it is removed, then someone else might come along and attempt to add different information about a character's skin tone, which turns out to be false information. For those and other reasons, I strongly oppose this idea. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 10:22, June 19, 2016 (UTC) :::::Those Weasley boys really have a thing for black girls eh? First, George and Angelina and now Ron and Hermione. Nothing wrong with that. Just thought a litte interesting fact in a joking tone to ease everyone tension of this topic. On a serious note, this may imply Draco insult of "Mudblood" carry even a worst implication for non-HP fans. We fans know what Mudblood means but to non-HP, this may imply racist comment.Seasrmar (talk) 08:17, June 28, 2016 (UTC) ::::::@ Seasrmar - What you said makes absolutely no sense, because Hermione isn't black. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 09:17, June 28, 2016 (UTC) :::::::JKR said she is. Seasrmar (talk) 12:38, June 28, 2016 (UTC) ::::::::You have no proof to back up your claim. I don't believe it. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 21:40, June 28, 2016 (UTC) :::::::::Why is skin color something that matters? If it ever played any kind of role in the stories I would understand, but it is never significant. How many characters have actually had their skin color described in the books. As far as I can tell, most other characters' infoboxes don't even have a citation for skin color. I think a lot of it is either people going by the movies, or just assuming that everyone is white unless stated otherwise.Gowron8472 (talk) 22:10, June 28, 2016 (UTC) ::::::::::Yes, I do. Via JKR Twitter: http://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/678888094339366914?s=17 ::::::::::I know it shocked many, myself included that Hermione could be black. I've got accustomed to Emma Watson as portraying Hermione. But I thought to myself, JKR is the author, if she wants to change the skin color of a character she created, it's her right. She may have us believe that all this time Hermione was white, then change Hermione to black, then maybe even further down the road, back to white or even something else. Hermione Jean Granger is JKR'a character, JKR decide Hermione features. What's awesome is we don't even have to personally agree with how JKR or each other see Hermione. Reading suppose to inspire imagination. We can see how we see her. Like me, I will for now see Emma Watson. There is a canon way that us set by the author at his or her choosing and changing at his or her will. But personally, it's up to the individual readers to let his or her imagination to see how the character is for him or herself.Seasrmar (talk) 22:17, June 28, 2016 (UTC) :::::::::::@ Seasrmar - I'm still hesitant to believe it. Unless an administrator, or someone who has proven to be capable of finding a solution to settle this debate, then I'm still hesitant to believe it. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 23:13, June 28, 2016 (UTC) ::::::::::::JKR has both given many clues (just read this talk page) that she originally envisioned Herminone as having lighter skin. However, she has also given her support for Black Hermione in no uncertain terms ("I decided not to get too agitated about it and simply state quite firmly that Hermione can be a black woman with my absolute blessing and enthusiasm.") Everyone reads Hermione differently, and given that JKR supports these differing interpretations, there is no single answer to this question, just different readings with various supporting points. --Ironyak1 (talk) 23:27, June 28, 2016 (UTC) :::::::::::::We now seem to have found a solution that should hopefully settle this debate. If we were to add this information and add a source to it, hopefully this debate will be over. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 23:48, June 28, 2016 (UTC) :::::::::::::I'm in agreement with Ironyak1 here. Although the evidence suggests JKR originally envisioned Hermione as white, her recent statements make it clear that she hasn't ruled out the possibility of Hermione being black, and canonical references to Hermione's appearance leave enough wiggle room to allow for this interpretation. The references to her being "pink" or "pale," which would seem to suggest she has a lighter skin tone, are more indicators of emotional state than race, i.e. that she is frightened or embarrassed in a specific scene. That doesn't necessarily mean that she is white - only that her skin tone isn't so dark as to make flushing and pallour effectively invisible. I'd suggest leaving the "skin tone" field in her infobox empty. ★ Starstuff (Owl me!) 00:34, June 29, 2016 (UTC) ::::::::::::::If it helps dissolve this debate, then I'm all for it. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 00:36, June 29, 2016 (UTC) That's another thing why Hermione never could have dark skin: The live final of the 2014 Quidditch World Cup, as written by Rita Skeeter and Ginny Potter, states '''that Rose has her father's hair' and Hugo has inherited Hermione's bushy locks. Hermione has brown, bushy hair - thus, to have inherited them, Hugo must have brown bushy hair too. Same for Rose, to have inherited her father's "red" hair.'' How can Rose have inherited the red hair of her father if her mother has dark skin. Sorry, but that's impossible. [[User:Harry granger| Harry granger ]][[User talk:Harry granger| ' Talk ']] 23:50, August 3, 2016 (UTC) :While rare, it is not impossible. See this article for a photo shoot and discussion on the genetics of red hair. Cheers --Ironyak1 (talk) 00:45, August 4, 2016 (UTC) ::It's a common misconception that it is impossible for red haired people to have dark skin. It is in-fact possible, but like Ironyak said, it is extremely rare. This discussion has gotten very long, so perhaps it would be nice to close this discussion, and start a new one at the bottom of the page. ::I'm only suggesting it since this discussion has gotten very long, and starting a new one would prevent things from getting too tacky. In-fact it was tacky to the point where I discovered that not enough users that participated in this discussion have been intending their messages on a regular basis like they should have. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 01:33, August 4, 2016 (UTC) Changed her name - or not? Although Rita refered to her as Hermione Granger, the new Pottermore information on the casting of the cursed child play refers to her as Hermione Weasley. Should we assume that she changed her last name then?--Rodolphus (talk) 15:44, December 21, 2015 (UTC) :Bump - I can't seem to find any casting info with Hermione Weasley mentioned. Rodolphus, or anyone else, have a link to this info? --Ironyak1 (talk) 15:04, May 31, 2016 (UTC) :ETA: I did find this mention of Hermione Weasley, but it looks like the Muggles at Time just got it wrong as JKR herself refered to her as Hermione Jean Granger in wishing her a Happy Birthday. --Ironyak1 (talk) 15:16, May 31, 2016 (UTC) I seem to remember her being refered to as Hermione Weasley on Pottermore, but now I can´t find it myself. Mayve I misread something.--Rodolphus (talk) 15:21, May 31, 2016 (UTC) :Anyone have thoughts if Hermione kept Granger or hyphenated it? The new Pottermore article is very vague in the they are referred to as the Weasleys, Ron Weasley & Hermione Granger, and the Granger-Weasleys. We know Rose Granger-Weasley for sure but what about her parents - kept names or hyphenated based on how you read the article? --Ironyak1 (talk) 07:42, June 1, 2016 (UTC) Hermione kept it as Granger. She´s refered to as Hermione Granger in the 2008 edition of the Tales of Beedle the Bard, hich she translated from Ancient Runes to English for Muggle readers. Also, Rita Skeeter refered to as Hermione Granger during the 2014 world cup.--Rodolphus (talk) 09:16, June 1, 2016 (UTC) :While I generally agree with you, CC is in 2017 and Hermione could always have changed to Granger-Weasley at any time after QWC2014, not just right when she got married. (Given their attention to detail, MinaLima probably already had a Magical change of name form printed up, just in case ;) The problem arises from PM's parallel sentence structure: "A first look at Ron, Hermione and Rose Granger-Weasley" means Ron Granger-Weasley, Hermione Granger-Weasley, and Rose Granger-Weasley. If they are different then it's "first look at Ron Weasley, Herminone Granger, and Rose Granger-Weasley." (It's not all bad to have an English teacher in your house, although it can be challenging at times :) Others have read it this way as well on Twitter. As a playbill with a full cast list only days away, we'll soon know for sure. --Ironyak1 (talk) 12:31, June 1, 2016 (UTC) ::The official Twitter feed for the play is reporting characters as Ron Weasley, Hermione Granger, and Rose Granger-Weasley. https://twitter.com/HPPlayLDN/status/737886800237170688 at least that is all clear! --Ironyak1 (talk) 18:17, June 1, 2016 (UTC) The Cursed Child In the meantime, for the sake of those of us who haven't had the chance, could you please avoid putting the spoilers out where we can see. Since this page is on my watchlist, I get an email alert when it changes, and with no warning I was greeted with a page full of spoiler information that I am trying not to look at. Thanks in advance… —Phil | Talk 07:44, July 5, 2016 (UTC) : Anyone who wants to post spoilers should be putting them in draft articles and anyone who wants to talk about it elsewhere should be putting them under CC spoiler boxes so others know not to read them if they choose not to. Unfortunately though Phil, a lot of the people trying to post them are very new to how wikia works and don't think its a big deal so they will keep trying to add things for the next month. I had to keep undoing the same spoiler on Hermione's page for example the other day so it may be best to stop emails until you have read the book if you don't like spoilers. --May32 (talk) 11:51, July 5, 2016 (UTC) New Main Image File:Hermionedhface.jpg|Option 1 - current image File:Hermione Granger HS TDH.png|Option 2 - new proposal I think I have a better option for the infobox image. The current image is blurry, where as the new suggestion is sharp and high quality, and it also shows her facing forward and doesn't chop off her hair at the back like the current image. - JMAS Hey, it's me! 07:15, November 18, 2016 (UTC) Option 1 #― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 07:17, November 18, 2016 (UTC) Option 2 #JMAS Hey, it's me! 07:15, November 18, 2016 (UTC) Skin colour, revisited revisited Can't Hermione's skin colour just be listed as "unknown"? What is clearly canonical in JKR's eyes is ambiguous, since she both approved of Emma Watson in the movies and Noma Dumezweni in Cursed Child. It should be evident that the best way to leave her skin coulor is up to the reader since that apparently is how JKR takes it. Also, as someone mentioned above, the so-called "sources" for Hermione's skin colour (looking like a panda, being described as "white-faced") are mere literary devices for characterization use; the early drawings can still be taken in multiple ways and not necessarily for final cut as many early drafts are not technically canonical; and even though other canonical black characters (and other people of colour) are distinguished as such in the books, that doesn't necessarily make Hermione not black? This whole page is trying for so many implicit sources to say that Hermione is white "by default," and it would be far more productive to just label her skin colour as "unknown." Matriarchy (talk) 22:21, March 25, 2017 (UTC) I honestly agree with you. Many imagine Hermione as white. many imagine her as black, many imagine her as many other things. I imagine her as part Hispanic because I look like a part Hispanic Hermione. Many say that changing the infobox will make it unpopular. They call it "preserving the website/page/character/fandom". I'' call it ''racist. Can we just come to an agreement? Can we list it as "unknown" or "undetermined" or just not list it at all? I feel people in every fandom are just too racist these days. Hermione is a Ravendor Jedi Master (talk) 22:48, December 13, 2017 (UTC) I used to read this series called Big Nate and Teddy, one of the main characters, is black, but his skin was never shaded in in the grayscale drawings and his race was never said, but later on, in the color pictures, they show you he's black. How does this drawing really prove anything? Just imagine Hermione however the heck you want. And just know a Hufflepuff got upset by this and was ranting about it on quotev.com. Oh, and one more thing: Imagining Hermione as any race includes imagining her as white. Another thing: I'm not calling anyone racists for the infobox, but why do we list skin colour? What does it matter? Rey swung her staff at your head and (talk) 21:24, December 29, 2017 (UTC) : The problem is, Rowling made a drawing where Dean was shaded in and Hermione was not. Rowling was aware of the appearance of her characters when she made that drawing, and she drew them how she pictured them. Every art drawing of Hermione on book covers and in books have also painted her white, even in pictures with colour. It's not simple like the book you mentioned. : It is obvious how Rowling pictured her and she continued to support that image in her books, which have described Hermione as very pale and very white many times. The beauty of Rowling is that she has told you that you can imagine Hermione however you want to imagine her, and what she has said to be the appearance of any of the characters does not have to be true in your imagination. You imagine Hermione how you want, and don't let an infobox bother you. : However the wiki serves to be factual and logical. It's not about the personal feelings and imagination of an editor or reader. The appearance of the characters are noted because it is simply a fact about that character, and people are interested. The best that can be done to resolve any argument fairly would be to go by the evidence from which we at least logically deduce the right information like the drawing of Hermione and Dean, and to hold a vote. The wiki settled that one already. The majority voted to keep the information the way it is. You cannot be more fairer than that, otherwise we will keep going in circles arguing about the same thing over and over again. - Poppy13 (talk) 22:16, December 29, 2017 (UTC) ::Exactly. So I strongly suggest that some of these users here drop their petty arguments which have already proven to get them nowhere. They're basically resurrecting an argument that was already settled ages ago. And wasting your time and energy trying to resurrect a dead argument is a highly unproductive thing to do. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 22:39, December 29, 2017 (UTC) ::I just say leave it, I never said "change it". The Resurrection Stone won't work anyways- it only brings back an echo of whatever or whoever you want to resurrect. If you don't like the infobox, ignore it. It's as simple as that. I'm not saying "get rid of the infobox" or "change the information" or "you are racist" or any of that, I'm just wondering why ethnicity even matters for this character. Rowling left it up to all of us. ::Why the fandom is tearing itself into pieces over Hermione's ethnicity is stupid. Just accept that you see a character one way but another person sees them differently and we'll all be fine. Rey swung her staff at your head and (talk) 01:15, December 30, 2017 (UTC) :::I know. I'm agreeing with you. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 01:46, December 30, 2017 (UTC) :::It's killing me that people are ready to kill because "well she thinks Hermione is black" or "he says Hermione is white" or "they think she's Hispanic" or "they say she's Greek" or any of that. It's pointless. Drop the Stone and get on with your lives. An onfobox won't end it. Rey swung her staff at your head and (talk) 16:54, December 30, 2017 (UTC) :::If skin colour matters so much, why does a character whose skin colour was obviously specified as dark not on their file? (not Hermione, this is Bellatrix's file) Just wondering. Hermione is a Ravendor Jedi Master (talk) 23:30, January 11, 2018 (UTC) :::: Do you have a book citation that notes Bellatrix's skin as being dark? If so, that information should be added to her infobox. Thanks --Ironyak1 (talk) 23:36, January 11, 2018 (UTC) :::: Rowling did reference to her as "a tall dark woman" in Order of the Phoenix. Well, not the best reference, but in Half-Blood Price, she described Bellatrix as "Dark while her sister was fair" when describing Bellatrix's appearance. Would that work? Hermione is a Ravendor Jedi Master (talk) 00:03, January 12, 2018 (UTC) :::: "An infobox won't end it." True, it won't end it. It'll just throw you into Tartarus along with Percabeth where you will suffer for a year while the world waits to find out what will happen to you. Oh, BTW, that's worse than death. Also, Rey swung her staff at your head and, work on your spelling, clearly you cannot spell infobox correctly.Hermione is a Ravendor Jedi Master (talk) 16:33, January 15, 2018 (UTC) Birthdate citation The explanation attached to the birthdate is unnecessary. The Pottermore article referenced gives her birthdate outright, so there is no need to include a speculating explanation. : 01:02, May 14, 2017 (UTC) ::Just because it's referenced doesn't mean people won't change her year of birth to 1980 to line up with Harry and Ron's dates of birth; given when the school term starts, and since they're all intended to be the same age, it can be easy to assume they were all born the same year, without thinking of the actual dates of birth. The explanation is there as a measure to try and deter said wrong changes.--[[User:Cubs Fan2007|'Cubs Fan']] [[User talk:Cubs Fan2007|'(Talk to me)']] 01:32, May 14, 2017 (UTC) :::The article referenced makes the explanation unnecessary. There is no reason to explain the year when it is given in the reference outright. People are going to make incorrect changes anyway, and it read to me as if the article hadn't been updated to follow the Pottermore article. 01:43, May 14, 2017 (UTC) ::::And even if it doesn't stop people from making incorrect changes, it still makes those said changes less explainable and less justified. Who cares if the article referenced makes the explanation unnecessary? I don't think it's unnecessary at all. This is literally just a fuss over nothing. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 05:19, May 14, 2017 (UTC) The legitimacy of the skin colour sources The three sources that cite Hermione as being "light" don't hold that much weight apart from a twenty year old drawing: her skin being described as white in a scene where she was nervous hardly counts, as it could be interpreted as the colour draining from her face; saying she looked like a panda when she had bruised eyes is also taken too seriously. Yes, panda's are black and white, but it was simply a metaphor to explain the placement of the bruises. Neverlanding rapunzel (talk) 13:53, October 10, 2017 (UTC) :I think those sources should stay where they are, and I think the information should stay where it is. Failure to do so is likely to start arguments. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 10:13, October 11, 2017 (UTC) :This is stupid. Is it right to crush the dreams of many? Is it right to insist she must be white when she could be any glorious race? I seriously think if it is likely to start arguments, then those people are, in fact, racist. I don't want this site to promote racism, so I won't be content until her skin colour is changed to "undetermined" οr "unknown" so those who didn't imagine Hermione as white will be content and agree. Hermione is a Ravendor Jedi Master (talk) 22:53, December 13, 2017 (UTC) If your only argument becomes, if you don't agree with me you're "racist," then you've already lost. This wikia does not exist to serve one person spamming the board. Anyone is free to imagine Hermione as they please, but the infobox is based on the evidence we have, regardless of whether you think it valid. If Rowling's own art won't convince you, nothing will. Goofyd00d (talk) 23:13, December 13, 2017 (UTC) That's not my only argument. I actually could be convinced, it'll just take a lot more than just art. And since when did "Hermione's white face" or "Hermione very brown" mean anything about her skin colour? I will not share any of my other arguments because you will all get mad at me. We can keep the infobox. Just take it up with Rowling herself if you ever get the chance to get your final answer. Sorry if I spammed all of you. Hermione is a Ravendor Jedi Master (talk) 00:26, December 14, 2017 (UTC) How about all of you just slim it. Rowling gave evidence both for a white Hermione, and for a non-white Hermione. What does it matter, the infobox may not say what you think, but you can still imagine her however you want regardless of what it ways. The infobox can stay but your dreams and imaginations don't have to change. And I'm sure I know what spam is: "spam spam/''noun'' #1.irrelevant or inappropriate messages sent on the Internet to a large number of recipients.#* #2.trademarka canned meat product made mainly from ham. verb #1.send the same message indiscriminately to (large numbers of recipients) on the Internet." Okay. I don't know whether that was spam, but just slim it and move on. (Also, if you don't know what "slim it" means, I say do your Maze Runner research, it's school-appropriate) Slim it Greenie (talk) 22:02, December 19, 2017 (UTC) :As long as what is in the info-box stays per consensus that was already reached sometime ago, then there aren't any issues with your suggestion. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 12:20, December 20, 2017 (UTC) :Yeah, I think that's what they intended: the infobox can stay. Rey swung her staff at your head and (talk) 16:51, December 30, 2017 (UTC) Just a suggestion: Can we add this bit of information to the infobox? "Rowling based Hermione off a younger version of herself. Rowling is white, therefore Rowling imagined Hermione to be white when she created Hermione." This seems like accurate information to me and is the most valid information I have come across so far. Hermione is a Ravendor Jedi Master (talk) 02:55, February 6, 2018 (UTC) :Irrelevant. The same logic could be used to say "Rowling is not a witch, therefore Rowling imagined Hermione to be a Muggle." -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 06:51, February 6, 2018 (UTC) ::I agree with what Seth has said. I'm also unsure why we are still discussing this, when the situation was officially settled ages ago, that her skin colour information would remain how it is in the article. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 06:55, February 6, 2018 (UTC) Her "unknown book" - is it known after all? There is an item listed among her possessions as "Unknown book" which links to Hermione Granger's book which redirects to Voyages with Vampires. Is this a mistaken link, a mistaken redirect, something that is out of its timeline, or a mistaken "unknown" label? Seems to me, the book is known after all. As it currently stands, at any rate. Could be an unintended redirect mistake of course. Could also be that it'll be deemed an insignificant detail and removed. Though I hate deleting content and would never recommend it as a solution. p.s.: I'm glad to see her skin color being widely discussed here at least. The article was painfully silent on the issue. At the very least put a link to the talk page somewhere conspicuous, while we argue back and forth. And put this in the . Seems simple to me though; White in the movie, black in the play. No, I will not edit the article as I don't consider myself qualified on the subject matter. 3ICE (talk) 01:13, December 31, 2017 (UTC) :Well spotted! The link previously, erm, linked to [http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Hermione_Granger%27s_book?oldid=795279 an article that has since been redirected to the Voyages with Vampires article]. It must've been accidentally left behind. Taken care of! -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 03:31, December 31, 2017 (UTC) Favourite subject I found on Hermione's page that Charms was listed as Hermione's favourite subject before she started studying Arithmancy. I actually can't recall a canonical source for this fact, so I temporarily delted that sentence. Logically, her favourite subject before Arithmancy is either Charms or Transfigurtion, but I wasn't able to find canonical proof of which one of the two was her actual favourite. If anyone can find this proof, please comment here and edit the wiki page! ExpectoPatronum203 (talk) 11:00, June 21, 2019 (UTC) Sick Mudblood joke on Hermione Purple name title under the photograph of Hermione calls here Hermione Jean-'Mudblood' Granger Unless this Fan Wikipedia is written by Death Eaters and a new Dark Lord, surely could never be appropriate :( RomanusBlack (talk) 16:56, July 30, 2019 (UTC) TOC Issue I noticed that the Table of Contents doesn't extend past her abilities section and I forgot how to fix that. Zane T 69 (talk) 00:38, January 20, 2020 (UTC) :Like this? I don't know why the spacing around the Dialogue a-b template would affect the TOC, but it did. AdamPlenty (talk) 03:18, January 20, 2020 (UTC) ::Well, thanks for fixing that. Zane T 69 (talk) 03:49, January 20, 2020 (UTC)